Curse

Kyp Jade · Oct 05, 2008, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

One has to know how the game works before one can make builds. Too often it is the people that don't know much about the game trying to make new builds and claiming anyone with a decent build just 'copied it from wiki.'

First this, a lot of times when a good guild puts a build together, it gets copied. Other players then run that build till they understand it enough to modify it, or make thier own using similar tactics and ideas. It is very difficult to start from scratch in a game almost 4 years old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Especially in HA there are so many must-have skills, you will just fail without them.

But it is true that players, and again especially in HA, tend to focus too much on the build when they should focus more on the quality of the players in their team. A good player with an improvable build is better than a bad player that copied from pvx (which is what most people run and considered the best, even though that's often not the case, the most obvious example being iway w/r's).

HA has been bad every since certain skills were forced on teams, just as you say. And your completly right, to the point where I have a build for pugs, and a much more flexible build for friends. (Augury of death on my PD mesmer is lol) its all about who your with sometimes.

.... Too bad only one person can win a thread

Killed u man · Oct 05, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Well, after 3 years of Guild Wars, lesser importance, and nearly 2 years of Nightfall, people slowly have weeded out (as said before) all the bad skill.

It's called compression. Creating your "own" skill bar now will result in 2 conclusions you will take:

-> It already exists in some form or another
-> There is a "better", or identical build on Wiki
There still is, however, some people that experiment with skills as much as they can.
For me, creating a build, and effectivly running is, is something very few people can do, because:

1) As the build creator, you need to know pretty much EVERY skill in this game like the back of your thumb and know how it works
2) You need to see/find synergies
3) You need to be a good player/caller in order for your newly created build to work (Calling SoMW, or calling Ritspike are 2 completely different playstyles)
4) You obviously need 7 good "friends" that are willing to try your new build (non RA anyway)

Nr.4 is a big problem for Kyp Jade (He tries alot of different stuff) since most of his friends, and mine aswell, simply left GW. PUG's in either HA or TA CAN'T run new builds. They are SET to their wiki builds, and can't think "outside the box" in order to play other skill bars.

But hey, if you want new effective, yet fun, skillbars, just PM me, I always have a build or 2 up my sleeve thats original, and has potential to serve as a new meta:

-BB-sin
-Caster-Sin
-Ritspike
-Contagionway (aka draw-way)

are some of the builds I created (And yes, I know there is no point arguing over this, as other people claim they did themselves, I DO know that I've ran all of these builds, usually within a day after the introduction of them into the game and I know the same people that I rolled with these builds, copied them the next day claiming them as their own)

But if you want some new builds: (Bear in mind, the game IS old, and skillbars are already as effective as it gets, so it's unlikely that in GvG -where Build Wars is very noticable- these bars won't fair too well)

[build prof=Elementalist/Dervish][Wounding Strike][Phoenix][Inferno][Lyssa's Assault][Glyph of Essence][Conjure Flame][Attacker's Insight][Resurrection Signet][/build]

400 damage spike withtin 2/10's of a second, how can this not me a good RA build?

Use enchants, Glyph of Essence, Wounding Strike follow with Phoenix.

[build prof=Assassin/Ranger][Incendiary Arrows][Keen Arrow][Tiger's Fury][Disrupting Accuracy][Critical Eye][Way of the Master][Critical Defenses][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Good replacement for a IA Ranger. (Or synergize with it) The Crit arrow damage makes up for the lack of poison, the AoE interrupt-spam (nearby) is highly effective, and alternative, Keen arrow gives amazing spike damage OR can be replace my utility skills: [Distracting Shot] or [Pin Down]. Crit Defenses is imba. Worst case scenario, they strip it, and you can simply recast it straight away.

Just posting this builds as to show that there still is alot of good combo's left. But both GvG and HA are very stale, and people refuse to run anything but their overpowered gimmick, in order to steamroll through other people thinking they are actually good players.

Hundbert · Oct 05, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

It has come to my attention that most skills used these days are from wiki

And i wonder where the wikis get their builds from

Sorry but i don't really see what the point of this thread is. Some place for ra scrubs to whine about 'wiki builds'?

shoogi · Oct 05, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

[build prof=Elementalist/Dervish][Wounding Strike][Phoenix][Inferno][Lyssa's Assault][Glyph of Essence][Conjure Flame][Attacker's Insight][Resurrection Signet][/build]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

[build prof=Assassin/Ranger][Incendiary Arrows][Keen Arrow][Tiger's Fury][Disrupting Accuracy][Critical Eye][Way of the Master][Critical Defenses][Resurrection Signet][/build]

snaek · Oct 05, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

i'll answer ur question as simple as possible:

massive skill imbalance

lutz · Oct 06, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Most good builds in GvG are not on the wiki, and, in fact, most good players never take a look at the wiki. Most builds are already known by heart - frontline, midline, and backline, since almost all GvG players have so much experience with them. They modify builds a little based on what they want to work towards - for example, Hex Breaker monks in a heavy domination mesmer meta, or heavy enchant removal in a defensive-heavy meta.

To be honest, the wiki doesn't do anything for the good players, and most bad players will stay bad if they continue to focus on the wiki. It's not about running the exact bars, it's about knowing what you're doing to accomplish a certain task. Besides, a lot of the bars on the wiki are only useful if you know what you're doing and if you're able to modify it by yourself (because the bars are almost always not entirely correct). If you know what you're doing, you're only looking on the wiki because you forgot a bar or are too lazy to reroll a new character and drag all the skills onto your bar.

Good Examples:
This is a great backbone of a balanced build, but only if you know what you're doing. A lot of the choices are better off modified (Mo/E's, more bar pumping on the ritualist, better mesmer bars, etc).
This needs a lot of modifications from people who know what they're doing to make it a viable build.

bungusmaximus · Oct 06, 2008, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Running funny builds is LOL becuase theyre funny, running cookie cutters is LOL because they're good. Running funny good builds is LOL because people usually don't slot against builds out of the ordinary.

Cookie cutter isn't always bad, evisc/axe and cripshot are fun as hell to play. They're good bars because they're flexible. Flexible != boring.

Divinus Stella · Oct 06, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

I'd have to agree that the builds come from the players and not from wiki, the people that update wiki are clueless and terrible and if left to their own devices will just spew out the same W/Mo farming builds for every situation.

Riotgear · Oct 06, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

"Wiki noobs" is just a way of whining about other players not handicapping themselves with shitty "creative" builds, usually after dying to them so they can tell themselves that they're better and only lost because their opponent isn't playing fair.

scruffy · Oct 28, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

join a guild and play gvg 1 time per day and you wont need to look at wiki for builds ever again

1)you can copy from opponents/obs mode
2)when you get good you will be smart enough to put together a build that works whether it is popular or not

Kaon · Oct 28, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

For each task you might try to achieve, there are only a few skillbars that offer the most in power, utility or efficiency. For example, your flare ele might kill something very occasionally, but it is outclassed in terms of utility by mindblast, power by SH, and efficiency by a decent warrior bar. When you use a substandard bar, people get mad at you because you are dragging them down with you.

Thread ended here. Anyone posting after this is a spammer.

Oh, and i've never even been on pvxwiki or whatever its called. And i've played more gvgs than everyone on guildwarsguru together. Thousands of them.

lutz · Oct 31, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Thread ended here. Anyone posting after this is a spammer.

Oh, and i've never even been on pvxwiki or whatever its called. And i've played more gvgs than everyone on guildwarsguru together. Thousands of them.

That's actually not quite so correct. Most of the time, finding the specific task you want to achieve is the difficult part. Understanding the meta, and knowing how to both deal with it with balanced and counter it with build wars is crucial.

Obviously, having efficient bars is nice, but understanding what you can sacrifice and what you can do and still accomplish multiple goals is key.

Div · Nov 01, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

And i've played more gvgs than everyone on guildwarsguru together. Thousands of them.

PvP elitist. Just because you can't come up with creative builds...

Bowstring Badass · Nov 01, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Thread ended here. Anyone posting after this is a spammer.

Oh, and i've never even been on pvxwiki or whatever its called. And i've played more gvgs than everyone on guildwarsguru together. Thousands of them.

So your spamming nice.

Anyway why make some "creative" build when you can just use one of the "pvxwiki noob builds" and still have the same effect if not more efficient?

FoxBat · Nov 01, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

When I see NOW winning with things like incoming assassins and mind shock, I'm not so sure all the best builds have really been mined out of the game. There probably was a time when people had the very best things all figured out based on the current skill balances, but it doesn't look like there are enough good players working on that anymore. Why did it take this long for people to pair ED with WE. And random crap like BEST used to run did awfully well.

One problem in GW is that testing wacky builds requires the time of 8 other players, and you are going to gimp yourself more often then not trying things out, so you're asking those players to take more losses. Even if there are more good builds out there, there's vastly more bad ones to stumble upon. When you're looking for an edge in the next monthly, spending time losing on odd builds to find a decent one can be worth it; if you're just trying to climb the ladder, not so much.

Lakdav · Nov 01, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

I agree with the OP completely.

I personally never looked up builds from wiki. Hell, for about 3 years i didn't even know that there is a builds section in the wiki. I just put together skills that seems good together. And i was called a noob so much times it realy lost it's meaning for me.

For me, the best part of the game is getting together builds. I often cap an elite just becouse a spark of an idea of a good build has crossed my mind the other day, therefore i have just for example: all blood elites and all water elites (only becouse i had an idea for all of them some time ago)

Sometimes i make a build that works good, then find out it was on wiki for 4 months. But then who cares? i sure don't. I had fun while looking up skills, imagining their work together, experimenting with the build and yes, failing numerous times.

Thats my main concern with most people: They can't lose! They think if they don't win most every games their life is a failure, and of course they can blame this on other people in their team. So many times i have seen in RA after 7 wins we lose one time and 1 of my teammates calls the other a noob for using xy skill or skillbar, while it worked perfectly so far! This is realy sad...

For me, best times on GW is when there is a huge so-called skill balancing (like the last in august), when most people are experimenting with the new skill-formulas. After 2 weeks new builds come up to be abused, and the noobcalling starts again...

I just wish there would be a real 1v1 pvp in the game, like the eon norn tournament with players, so i don't 'waste' other player's time while having my own kind of ingame fun...

Lourens · Nov 01, 2008, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Yeah i agree most ppl who get them from pvx are just not creative i never pick builds from pvx unless for gvg or farm purposes

FoxBat · Nov 01, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Random arenas aren't srs bsns and you can't expect people not to run stupid things. Half of the players just go there for testing purposes or getting acquainted with a build that is completely new to them. The other half are goofing off. Real glad hunters belong in TA.